Curse

radbout · Jun 24, 2009, 12:18 AM // 00:18

And perhaps its better to put the curses back on the channelingrit allowing the mm to heal again with good e-management and the rit to curse/hex after popping spirits. you then can consider dropping one of the curseskills (I'd say barbs) for rezz. You now have 4 free slots for healing on your minion-hero so u can add mend there.
downside is that the minion/resto nec can come in the situation of having to do two important jobs on the same time. This makes the heal less reliable when he choses to animate or spam death nova. So I'm not very sure at all about this.

MercenaryKnight · Jun 24, 2009, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Just curious, for the 2-man version dissonance looks kinda bad. It lasts only 22 seconds and I realize it's more for the damage. But it still costs 25 energy to cast which you could toss in shelter for the same energy cost, or throw in displacement for decent damage reduction near the beginning of the battle.

Guess it's just personal preference. I suppose subbing it out for say shelter if you were going in an area that would provide high spike damage at the start of a fight (before save yourselves is up) would be a good choice. Then for easier places that give you time to get save yourselves up just go for damage instead.

Vann Borakul · Jun 24, 2009, 01:27 AM // 01:27

I made a new 3hero build. I switched some things around to make it more efficient.

Rt/x
14-15 Communing
13 Spawning Power
Ritual Lord
Pain
Disenchantment
Anguish
Displacement
Union
Armor of Unfeeling
Boon of Creation

Same spirit build but with RL instead of Reclaim Essence.

Rt/N
12-13 Channeling (10+1+1 or 10+1+2)
12 Death Magic
9 Spawning Power (8+1)
Signet of Spirits
Bloodsong
Animate Bone Minions
Death Nova
Putrid Bile
Painful Bond
Boon of Creation
Spirit Siphon

Gave the channel rit minions so the necro could heal without Death Nova sabotaging the healing.

N/Rt
12 Restoration
12 Soul Reaping (10+1+1)
9 Curses (8+1)
Xinrae's Weapon
Mend Body and Soul
Spirit Light
Enfeebling Blood
Rejuvenation/Barbs
Protective Was Kaolai
Life
Death Pact Signet

Now has heightened healing ability. Enfeebling to weaken mobs. Rejuvenation also heals for ~320 in total for only 10 energy. It can be changed for Barbs... but I'm not sure which one is better. Barbs is usually very prominent, but I figured Rej could help since this is the only hero with healing when there's usually a half healer as well.

Codes:
OACiAyk8EM/mbuod48xBNdmA
OASjUwiKJSXTlTVBoBKgVTOTMTA
OAhjYoHYITWbSTTO2BciDTjTJXA

fenix · Jun 24, 2009, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

Just curious, for the 2-man version dissonance looks kinda bad. It lasts only 22 seconds and I realize it's more for the damage. But it still costs 25 energy to cast which you could toss in shelter for the same energy cost, or throw in displacement for decent damage reduction near the beginning of the battle.

Guess it's just personal preference. I suppose subbing it out for say shelter if you were going in an area that would provide high spike damage at the start of a fight (before save yourselves is up) would be a good choice. Then for easier places that give you time to get save yourselves up just go for damage instead.

Dissonance is amazing because it interrupts with every attack. That can be VERY important if you're facing a team with a lot of casters, because the build currently has no way of interrupting skills (on heroes). Being able to call a target and have interrupts + damage thrown at it is great.

Energy is a little steep, but that's why Reclaim and Boon of Creation are there

Arkantos · Jun 24, 2009, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by radbout

And perhaps its better to put the curses back on the channelingrit allowing the mm to heal again with good e-management and the rit to curse/hex after popping spirits. you then can consider dropping one of the curseskills (I'd say barbs) for rezz. You now have 4 free slots for healing on your minion-hero so u can add mend there.
downside is that the minion/resto nec can come in the situation of having to do two important jobs on the same time. This makes the heal less reliable when he choses to animate or spam death nova. So I'm not very sure at all about this.

The MM cannot have heals on him. The AI will make the hero cast death nova on a target before they cast a heal. In other words, the hero would rather want it to die than to stay alive.

Abedeus · Jun 24, 2009, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

The MM cannot have heals on him. The AI will make the hero cast death nova on a target before they cast a heal. In other words, the hero would rather want it to die than to stay alive.

Well, that's one thing.

But any 2-second skill that doesn't help your team on a character with heals is kinda risky.

radbout · Jun 24, 2009, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vann Borakul

I made a new 3hero build. I switched some things around to make it more efficient.

Rt/x
14-15 Communing
13 Spawning Power
Ritual Lord
Pain
Disenchantment
Anguish
Displacement
Union
Armor of Unfeeling
Boon of Creation

Same spirit build but with RL instead of Reclaim Essence.

Rt/N
12-13 Channeling (10+1+1 or 10+1+2)
12 Death Magic
9 Spawning Power (8+1)
Signet of Spirits
Bloodsong
Animate Bone Minions
Death Nova
Putrid Bile
Painful Bond
Boon of Creation
Spirit Siphon

Gave the channel rit minions so the necro could heal without Death Nova sabotaging the healing.

N/Rt
12 Restoration
12 Soul Reaping (10+1+1)
9 Curses (8+1)
Xinrae's Weapon
Mend Body and Soul
Spirit Light
Enfeebling Blood
Rejuvenation/Barbs
Protective Was Kaolai
Life
Death Pact Signet

Now has heightened healing ability. Enfeebling to weaken mobs. Rejuvenation also heals for ~320 in total for only 10 energy. It can be changed for Barbs... but I'm not sure which one is better. Barbs is usually very prominent, but I figured Rej could help since this is the only hero with healing when there's usually a half healer as well.

Codes:
OACiAyk8EM/mbuod48xBNdmA
OASjUwiKJSXTlTVBoBKgVTOTMTA
OAhjYoHYITWbSTTO2BciDTjTJXA

Your communing hero can spam offensive spirits but what good will they do if you gotta flag your hero back to make the defensive spirits work properly?
I also miss either shelter or ps this way. atleast one of them is needed
The communing rit should stay as it is I think, its already good.

The other two herobuilds are fine. I would consider changing the channling rt/n into a n/rt and use soulreaping for e-management and allow you to have higher death magic. This also frees two skillslots now being used for e-management, one of these could be used to add splinter back in the other one I for flesh of my flesh.

zelgadissan · Jun 24, 2009, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Vanquished Ferndale with this build last night with a mesmer and a ranger being the human controlled players. At one point we had two normal Dredge mobs (monk in each), Mungri Magicbox's group (monk boss with another monk), Oni pops, and a Luxon group pop for the supplies quest. Zero deaths.

This setup is too good. Seriously. I'll be trying out these six heroes in a four or five human Urgoz HM trip either tonight or tomorrow. I'll let you know how it relates to the 12-man areas.

mage767 · Jun 24, 2009, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

Vanquished Ferndale with this build last night with a mesmer and a ranger being the human controlled players. At one point we had two normal Dredge mobs (monk in each), Mungri Magicbox's group (monk boss with another monk), Oni pops, and a Luxon group pop for the supplies quest. Zero deaths.

This setup is too good. Seriously. I'll be trying out these six heroes in a four or five human Urgoz HM trip either tonight or tomorrow. I'll let you know how it relates to the 12-man areas.

The normal vq times using 2-human 6 heroes discordway in FERNDALE HM is 30-35 min. Sabway is similar.

How long did this build take and can you please post a screenshot the next time you vq Fernale HM?

TY

mage767 · Jun 24, 2009, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

No areas in particular, you can try it anywhere and let us know what the results are.

As for the MM/healer, yeah, he does seem to use death nova before healing. I'm thinking of changing the MM and SoS builds around - putting the 3 restoration skills on the SoS, and the 3 curses skills on the MM. Also change the MM's elite to jagged bones for more minion bombing. Also going to switch the 2 res skills around.
EDIT: Yeah, making those changes now.

Anyways, I tested the 1 man build in Abaddon's Gate HM. Switched the MM for a divert hexes necro. No deaths, managed to complete it in 10 minutes flat, would have scratched off 1-1 1/2 minutes but I screwed up on one part. Personally I've never heard of anyone doing it HM with h/h in less than 10 minutes, so I'm pretty proud of the results.

Arkantos,

Please post screenshots with your words. I can claim that I have done Abaddons Gate HM in min bt we know I would be lying. Infact, I did finish Abaddon's Gate HM in 11 minutes with no cons, all 3-heroes (my builds) and 4 henchies. I have a screenshot which I have posted twice in your threads and each time it got censored.

I am not bashing your builds. I just want proof using screenshots (as Smiling Assassin has shown) that your 1-man or 2-men hero builds can indeed perform better (time-wise lets say) in HM areas of the GW game.

I am still waiting to see your 'proud' results in the form of screenshots.

Thank you.

zelgadissan · Jun 24, 2009, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

How long did this build take and can you please post a screenshot the next time you vq Fernale HM?

It was something like 41 minutes (had 40 1-minute booze and drank the last one right before the last group), and that was with stopping at one of the shrine Merchants for quite some time for a bathroom break/selling off junk/buying a new ID kit. It would easily match that 30-35 if done by somebody who knew the perfect routes and all, and didn't have the bladder of a six-month old

If that same guildie is on tonight, I'll try to get him to vanquish it with me again and I'll screenshot the time.

Edit: also forgot to mention, we don't run the best builds. We run what we find fun. For example, my elite was Energy Drain. Obviously D-slash warriors or something would do this way faster than what we did. That just adds more to the power of this setup.

Oh, and one other final thought - if you really don't believe in the power this build can bring, you could always, you know, try it out yourself and compare times? You seem to be one of those people I mentioned above who would know the perfect routes to take.

Bill Clinton · Jun 24, 2009, 05:42 PM // 17:42

If we're talking about times, I have some for you - though no screenshots. You'll just have to take my word.
With a mesmer and an assasin we completed Naphui Corner HM in 19mins, Sunjiang district HM in 14mins (but this could easily have been 10 mins, we got lost for a period) And in 14mins on Gyala Hatchery we were on the last group, 0 Allies had died, only one ritualist death - and then lost due to overextending. Got wiped.

I have no idea about other times for these missions, so its up to you to decided if they're any good.

Missmelady · Jun 24, 2009, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Just did a quad run in doa with this build. 2 humans with the heroes. little under 2 hours. just watch pulling and u can pretty much go afk while ur in there

Bill Clinton · Jun 24, 2009, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missmelady

Just did a quad run in doa with this build. 2 humans with the heroes. little under 2 hours. just watch pulling and u can pretty much go afk while ur in there

Wow... thats pretty good! Or was that Normal mode?

Bill Clinton · Jun 24, 2009, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missmelady

Just did a quad run in doa with this build. 2 humans with the heroes. little under 2 hours. just watch pulling and u can pretty much go afk while ur in there

Wow... thats pretty good! Or was that Normal mode?

Moloch Vein · Jun 24, 2009, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Just wanted to post in the thread saying that we finished Mallyx in NM with a 5-hero build (and it could've been 6 heroes instead, I'm certain), that did not include SY. We used:

Heroes:
Rt/x Wanderlust/Earthbind
Rt/x Signet of Ghostly Might
N/Rt Weapon of Remedy
P/W Stunning Strike
P/Rt Consume Soul

Players:
N/Rt Signet of Spirits/Painful Bond
E/Rt Prism/Restoration
E/Mo Ether Renewal/Prot/GDW

Spirits have indeed been pushed over-the-top with the latest update. It's especially important to note Earthbind.

I'm dubious as to the value of minions on this sort of team build. It will crash Union fast and you already have a lot of distraction in the form of attack spirits.

Another thing to note is that anyone NOT running superior Channeling/Communing runes on their rit heroes are stupid.

MercenaryKnight · Jun 24, 2009, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missmelady

Just did a quad run in doa with this build. 2 humans with the heroes. little under 2 hours. just watch pulling and u can pretty much go afk while ur in there

Just curious, was it basically the same as the 2man or did you have to specialize the builds? Also what were the humans you ran for the situation? I would guess one save yourselves spammer and one nuker or something?

Arkantos · Jun 24, 2009, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

Arkantos,

Please post screenshots with your words. I can claim that I have done Abaddons Gate HM in min bt we know I would be lying. Infact, I did finish Abaddon's Gate HM in 11 minutes with no cons, all 3-heroes (my builds) and 4 henchies. I have a screenshot which I have posted twice in your threads and each time it got censored.

I am not bashing your builds. I just want proof using screenshots (as Smiling Assassin has shown) that your 1-man or 2-men hero builds can indeed perform better (time-wise lets say) in HM areas of the GW game.

I am still waiting to see your 'proud' results in the form of screenshots.

Thank you.

No problem.
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/1515/gw029y.jpg

Can't get a screenshot of me attacking him, because everytime he becomes vulnerable he takes about 1,000 damage, which kills him (as you can see from his health bar). Once the monolith died, he became vulnerable and instantly died. 9 minutes, I'm sure I can do better.

Switched out the necro for a PnH monk, since a MM is useless in this mission.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Just wanted to post in the thread saying that we finished Mallyx in NM with a 5-hero build (and it could've been 6 heroes instead, I'm certain), that did not include SY. We used:

Heroes:
Rt/x Wanderlust/Earthbind
Rt/x Signet of Ghostly Might
N/Rt Weapon of Remedy
P/W Stunning Strike
P/Rt Consume Soul

Players:
N/Rt Signet of Spirits/Painful Bond
E/Rt Prism/Restoration
E/Mo Ether Renewal/Prot/GDW

Spirits have indeed been pushed over-the-top with the latest update. It's especially important to note Earthbind.

I'm dubious as to the value of minions on this sort of team build. It will crash Union fast and you already have a lot of distraction in the form of attack spirits.

Another thing to note is that anyone NOT running superior Channeling/Communing runes on their rit heroes are stupid.

Nice job.

Anways, the MM provides excellent damage. 10 minions running around doing some damage, distracting enemies, and they do 95-105 AoE damage + poison when they die. Pretty hard to pass that up. As for union, it dies fast, yes, but it still provides amazing defense when it's up. I've been able to survive over aggro's with the 1 man build that I've had a very hard time doing with other h/h builds, and without the 3 communing spirits, that would definitely have not happened.

Also, a superior rune on the communing ritualist will make the spirits 2 levels higher (and will make shelter take less damage), which seems pretty viable.

Xenomortis · Jun 24, 2009, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

I'm dubious as to the value of minions on this sort of team build. It will crash Union fast and you already have a lot of distraction in the form of attack spirits.

Minions will drain Shelter, Displacement and Union in seconds.
This basically renders them useless as the minions die almost as quickly anyway. And that sort of prot is more than most minion masters can offer.

Having lots of spirits is almost as good, as they provide a number of squishy target alternatives, just not as many. Unfortunatly, they're not quite as expendable as minions.

Moloch Vein · Jun 24, 2009, 08:41 PM // 20:41

To be fair running dual SY will make Shelter trigger less often. However, Union and Displacement should pretty much go bye-bye in no time. Armor of Unfeeling is a no-brainer skill on the Communing bars.